The chief engineer's view of life as a power struggle of each against all is brought home to Charles Gould. He recognizes that, stripped of illusory idealism, he and Hernandez are "equals" who both wield power, that there is no fundamental difference between his power and that of a bandit. On the surface, the "debasing contacts" refers to the corruption that Charles Gould is forced to participate in -- through bribery and politics to dealing with bandits -- which has tainted his own power and brought it down to their level. However, this is also a more general indictment of dream-ideals as such, which must be expressed in "activity," i.e., which must interact with the outside world, and which inevitably become debased by the contact. See .